What the hell is a Purple Potamus?!?

Uh oh, now I've done it...page 9...

Purple Potamus? Well, it isn't quite a purple
potato, and it isn't quite a purple hippopatomus, but man... He he he he he!

Purple Potamus is a video store that they have in some states. And there "Mascot" is a purple Hippo. No idea they had anime there.

I dont really rent anime much, Hollywood video has a decent selection, I saw some EVA there, but Blockbusters is bad, who knows what they have I stopped going there since they starting hiring retarded people (seriously).

Yeah there was a video store like that around here, but once the store got big they had to stop renting fansubs.

Mother Mary, 9 pages!

I was going anime stuff shopping, when what did I stumble on? No, it wasn't DoD on DVD, it was 0079 ACTION FIGURES! Well, I bought Char's Zaku, The Gundam, and....A GUNCANNON!!!!! Guncannon happens to be my favorite MS from 0079 so I was clapping my hands and screming in joy like a bad knock-off anime high school girl. Not reall, but I was really freakin excited. Now, for a brief review of the figs caompared to the Wing figs:

Good Gravy, these things have detailed paint jobs. All the little serial numbers, warning signs, insignas, and wahtnot are on there crystal clear.
They don't fall apart as easily as the Wing models. This saves a lot of frustration.
Easily posable.
Keen equipment (beam javalin).

Final verdict: Gundam fan; keep in box and pose model kits instead. UC fan; buy ones to play with and ones to preserve.

Hey, can anyone give me the full scoop on Fist of the North Star? I'm too much of a wuss to watch it but I really like the tsubo idea and the whole idea behind it. I really don't care if I hear spoilers as I'm not going to buy this series anyway.

Hi

I hate blockbuster!!! heres the story....

One day I was excited because I learned that they had the AKIRA movie to rent but when I got there both of the tapes were broken and i was pissed. So I made the guy at the regestar phone other b-busters in the area. All of them had no akira movie! and their ANIME section sucks, The only have Sailor Moon, 2 VERY old DBZ tapes (like the first episodes), and TEKKEN the movie (which sucks in my opinion).

Bye

Hi

The Story was terrible! Dinosaurs OHHH AHHH !!!!!!! amazing ... THe movie had nothing to do with the video game, The only good part was that there was fighting and blood

Bye

*SIDE NOTE* I don't know what posessed me for a moment... Someone had asked about Fist of the North Star SOMEWHERE in this thread, and, well... I'm tired, I'm hot, I have a Japanese test tomorrow I am VERY unprepared for, and I need more sleep. Did I mention It's hot here? Sorry- I was irritable and missed the boat, I know... Just poretend this was never here. (Oh, who am I kidding- I've been waiting for an excuse to say all this- it might as well be now...)

*SIDE NOTE 2* He he... I'm sidenoting my own sidenote! Hurray! Well, anyway, I was mistaken about being mistaken- someone DID just ask about Fist of the North Star, and aparently, they read my earler post on it too... Wow... So, never mind the above Side Note- It was all true, in spite of itself. I need to study my Japanese. Bad. (I thought I wasn't going to see Sachiko this week... Oh BOY I'm in trouble...) And it's hot here. Very, very Hot.

**Random Update** I doubt anyone will even notice this... I'll miss you, Egichi Sachiko-sensei. Sayounara, Watashi no sensei desu.

I'm warning you... YOU ASKED FOR IT...

Hokuto no Ken, usually called 'Fist of the North Star', was a manga created by Hara Tetsuo in 1984. He did his best to get his work published in Boys Jump Magazine, and was finally allowed a short story about a young boy who was a master martial artist and fought against the Yakuza, and gave the story the title 'Don Quixote 2'. (I'm a little unclear as to if this is 100% acurate, but this is the best information I can find as of now...) Shounen Jump Comics felt he was an excellent artist, with an eye for the classic Fungfu movie style, but they felt hsi stories were a little *too* typical of the genre, and paired him up with a 'Story Artist', a man who was there to stretch the stories out and give them life. This man called himself Buronson, and recently worked on the manga 'Strain'.

The stage was set for Hokuto no Ken after the two sat down to watch "Mad Max 2; The Road Warrior". Kasumi Kenshirou (Called only Kenshirou, or just 'Ken' in the story) became an adult, with rather rugged good looks, seven scars on his chest in the shape of his Martial Arts school, the Big Dipper (Hokuto), and a kungfu style so deadly that a single touch could turn a man into a bloody mess. The story was called "Hokuto no Ken", literally meaning 'Ken of the Hokuto', though the word 'Ken' can also mean 'Fist', or fighting technique... So, it was also 'The North Dipper's Fist'.

The first chapter of manga premiered in 1984, and would run for over 5 years and 152 epoisodes of weekly anime, as well as a theatrical movie, 2 international Live Action films, and (years later) a successful line of Action Figures, as well as the occasional Video Game. There have been a few anniversary books, and while only the first 5 or so books were printed in english, Bunkou printings of Hokuto no Ken in Japanese are still relitavely easy to find, and quite inexpensive compared to the American counterpart.

The first major story arc introduced us to the year 199X (In other words, some time undefined in the 1990's). It explained that the world had been destroyed by Nuclear war, and that humans still live only as packs, with the strong ruling the weak. The first 10 pages or so of manga illustrates the point well, showing a bunch of thugs savagely killing a small band of nomads, eating their food and squandering their precious water. When their leader, named 'Z', is given a suitcase of money, he shoves it away and jokes about how it's not fit to wipe his behind with. (Forgive me, that's what he's saying... Translations vary, but it's there.) In a world of violence where the strong are villans, we need a hero... We are shown a wanderer, who seems to have raided both Mel Gibson and Bruce Lee's closets, imprisoned for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He's put in a cell where the urchin thief Bat mocks him, and a young mute girl named Lynne is set to guard them both. Bat attempts to grab Lynne's key while she gives the wanderer some water,and Ken merely touches Bat once, and sends him screaming to the floor. About the same time, one of Z's soldiers runs back to his master, and shows that many of his comrades were killed, with mysterious wounds that appear to have been made from the INSIDE. When a live man is found, he only managed to say 'Hokuto' before his head explodes.
Bat schemes with the stranger, trying to talk him into being the muscle behind his brain power. Lynne returns with food, and the wanderer tries to make conversation with her, revealing his name to be 'Ken'. Bat tells Ken that he's out of luck- the girl is mute. He then tells Ken how she watched as her parents were killed after the war by raiders, and she hasn't spoken sence. Lynne begins to silently cry, and Bat apologized profusely. Ken takes pity on the child and presses her 'Tsubo'- There is no english equivalent, so think "Pressure Point", and tells her that she is able to speak again. Before Bat can rag him for trying to bring false hope, the Village Elder (Saichouro) wants to see him.
Ken states he has no desitnation, and the elder orders the villagers to strip him of clothing to see if he bears the tattoo of Z. (A small 'Z', usually on the forehead. Z himself has 'Z666'.) What they find are seven scars on his torso in the shape of the Bid Dipper, a sign of bad luck. Before the ELder can decide what to do about this turn of events, the village is attacked by Z's army. The men go to battle- Lynne as well- but before she's brought with them, club in hand, she throws the keys to Ken.
Bat jokes about Ken and his new 'Chibi Girlfriend', but could care less, and states that she'll be dead anyway. Ken seems upset by this, and Bat explains that killing woman and children are nothing but things to kill to these bandits. Bat struggles with the key, but Ken has a better idea- he grabs the bars, and with his bare hands, rips them open like it's nobody's business. (The look on Bat's face in this scene is priceless...) Ken rushes to the battlefield, only to see he's too late- the villagers lie in a bloody heap, Lynne in the hand of the monsterous Z.
Z commands all to give him his due respect- to bring him Food. The villagers that remain think it's a ridiculous idea- that they're doomed anyway, they may as well fight. Ken, on the other hand, steps past the bodies without a word, and walks up to Z as if he's nothing. Lynne cries out Ken's name, proving Ken's ability, as a healer at least, to be true. Bat now questions who, or what, this man exactly is. When insulted by Z' thugs, he merely snaps his knuckles, and mumbles 'You're in my way'. He's rushed- Ken merely kicks each in turn in the face, and leaps over them. They rush him again, but all explode from the inside- just from one touch. The Saichouro recognizes this style... Hokuto Shinken, the North Dipper Holy Fist.
Z realizes Ken was the one that killed his men, but it's far too late... Kenshirou uses his first of an endless list of Secret Techniques, "Hokuto Hyaku-retsu Ken", the North Dipper Hundred Crack Fist. (For those of you who have never seen it, Ken strikes his opponents body so quickly that it appears he had several hands instead of 2, and his arls become mere blurs. The taps are light, but they manage to easily knock Z off his feet.) Ken catches Lynne from the fallen giant, and Z promises Ken's defeat. Ken never bothers to look at him when he mutters the story's most memorable line; "You are already dead." Sure enough, Z's body tears itself apart within seconds.
Saichouro realizes that this truly is Hokuto Shinken, the Chinese art of driving one's own spirit into his opponent through set spots (Tsubo), and shocking their body from within until certain death. Ken feels his work is done and leaves, asking for nothing in return. Lynne tries to convince him to stay, but teh elder explains to the girl that he leaves for their own good. Bat, on the other hand, thinks that Ken is about the best meal ticket he's ever seen, and begins to chase after him into the wasteland that was once Japan.

This is only the first chapter... THE FIRST CHAPTER, OF 27 TANKOU BOOKS.

The story continues long after this, focusing on Ken and his sidekick Bat, (And a little later, Lynne) with his many battles and trials to win back the woman he loves and to defend the honor and avenge the lives of the people he cares about. Half way or so through the series (Tankou 16), the story leaps 10 years in the future, where our children sidekicks have grown up, and are defending a world without Ken that has crumbled back into the degenerate society it was when they were younger. Characters do grow and change, and rarely are the villians just mere demons to kill and discard- not only are they quit einteresting, many of them are not truly evil, or at least seek compassion and try to repent. If nothing else we're always given a reason for a villian's madness, something many manga-ka would take lessons in.

Hokuto no Ken is generally looked down upon by the US anime community, for a few reasons. First off, the series isn't brand new, nor is it quite timeless. It's from the 80's, and many things- including hairstyles, fassion, and the like. But it was inspired by how the 1980's thought the post apocolyapse would be- for example, the villian chapter 2 and 3 looks VERY simmilar to the one of the villians from "Mad Max 2", right down to his haircut and weapons. Spade (The characters name, a giant with a mohawk who has his eye gouged out by Ken for a warm-up) was arguably a rip-off, but Hara Tetsuo always did this with love- In book 17 we're introduced to a fighting club, where the owners look A LOT like Mr. T and Holk Hogan, two notable American personalites of the time. I never actually thought that everyone would wear big shoulderpads after World War 3- but it seems to be the standard look. Was since Mel Gibson started it, and would still be, if anyone actually made Post WWIII stories. Ken's looks are also debated by many- some people say he looks like Mel Gibson, some say he looks like Sly Stallone, and many people think he looks like Bruce Lee. Honestly, I can promise you that all 3 were inspiration for this character, but Ken is merely himself. He's certainly not the typical heavy Metal Action Hero, though he certainly fits the basic description. The animation isn't considered top-notch by today's standards, but it's no better or worse than anything filmed as an anime in the 80's- Dragonball included. A lot of people have a problem with Hara Tetsuo's art, but I've always enjoyed it... It's the firthest thing from most classic artists, and resembles American Comics, like Todd McFarlane and James O' Barr far more than it does Japanese manga'ka. Most of the characters are extremely masculine, while most manga tends to have rather feminine lookign men. Even Hara's men are a lot thicker and stronger lookinbg than any manga I've ever seen, though the artist is not incapable of feminine or 'cute' looking characers- just don't expect anything in a 'classic' manga style. (Show someone who's never seen a manga the 'average' male manga character, and see how many think he looks homosexual... That's been my experience, anyway.)

The story is a long and tragic one, revolving around Ken's quest to save the people he loves, with a lot more intelligence than people ever give it credit for. Yes, it is basically a Kungfu movie, and most people either like that or they don't- You have a mild mannered but talented fighter, who is pushed to violence by a villian, usually as revenge. This is the way these stories work- ALWAYS work- but it's as simple a plot device as any I can think of. As far as plot density goes, Dragonball is about it's equal. Certainly, Hokuto no Ken takes a little less time for comedy and drama, but fights that only last a few chapter instead of books at a time let us know the characters faster without such long interludes of calm. The big difference is where Hokuto no Ken lacks on subtlety, it makes up for in it's morals and beliefs. Yes, there ARE morals to these stories- but they're not little things you can turn into poems, like a French Fairytale. The greatest example I can think of comes from chapter 3, after Ken has killed Spade and his gang as retribution to what they did to Mizumi, a farmer Ken tried to save, as well as the rest of Mizumi's village. Mizumi died trying to protect a bag of seed rice, and he was killed merely trying to conserve the well being of his people, even refusing to eat the rice himself while starving. The final page of this scene is Ken sprinkling the seeds on he earth. Bat huffs, complaining that Ken's wating it- nothing will grow on *that* ground. We are then shown that Ken is sprinkling the seeds on Mizumi's grave, and he replies that they WILL growm, and that the man who gave his life for them wll see to it. As you can see, the morals aren't simple- moreso they're ideals that our selfless, though flawed, hero tries to live up to. Ken could not save Mizumi, but he can punish those who wronged him, and still help him and his cause- even if he will never live to see it.

Another point most people bring up is the gore- and rightly so, I'll say. The gore is perhaps unequaled for any comic, manga or otherwise. Hokuto Shinken is quite a gory style, with hands rupturing, heads exploding, and time-released styles that not only make a person's body tear itself in half, but lets them think about it for several seconds beforehand. The opposing style, Nanto Seiken (South Sipper Star Fist) has 108 total schools, leaving an endless ammount of gory possibilities, usually in a cutting or jabbing way. Kenshirou's friend, Rei, is master of Nanto Suicho Ken (South Dipper Waterfowl Fist), and it cuts the opponent with straight lines of energy- as if they were clay cut with a scalpel- and leaves the opponent a truly bloody mess. The manga was extremely violent for a SHounen Jump title, but keep in mind that Go Nagai had been publishing violence of the same style in Devilman and Violence Jack ten years before Hara Tetsuo was ever published. The anime movie is perhaps the goriest incarnations, using special animation effects that for the TV show were meant to mask and hid the violence. Now, those effects taught Ashida Toyou (The original director) how to be even more cruel and disgusting. The film was passed as an all ages- with only brief nudity and very little swearing- but irate PTA members finally talked Ashida Toyou in to cencoring the film on Video and Laser Disc, by putting a purplish motion blur over the more violent sequences to leave it more to teh imagination. (As of now, an Uncensored version of this movie has NEVER been released on Video- nor has there been an official DVD, save for the English Dubbed Writers Cut version, which is also blurred.)

The movie itself is quite a controversey for fans of the series, particularly purists who watch the English dub. The story of the first 9 tankou books was compressed into one (almost) two hour film, with the screenplay by none other than Hara Tetsuo and Buronson. The movie re-wrote teh story considerably, and movied far too quickly to bee too pensive or whimsical- instead it was turned into an epic Martial Arts film, boasting a far larger budget than TV would allow, as well as no official censors- meaning that the anime would truly be uncut. During production, Ashida Toyou (The lead director) didn't like the new ending that Buronson created, in which the Villian wins the final battle, but succedes to Kenshirou- this eventually happened in the manga, but not until their second battle, while the film ended at the first. Ashida Toyou filmed the 'Bad Guy Ends' version first, but at the last minute refilmed and redubbed the film, so that it matched the manga (With neither Ken nor his advisary winning, and leaving the story far more 'open'). When the movie was dubbed in English, the 'Planned' ending was used, with the bad guy being viuctorious, while all French, Italian, and Japanese versions use the 'Draw' ending. I admit that the Villian Wins ending does make the story seem 'Over', and yes, teh final animation for the 'Manga Version' ending IS very rushed, and one shot is obviously a cell of Ken super imposed (None too well) over the footage of the villian on his horse, but for the story itself, the 'Draw' ending works better.

Another thing not helping teh series any to the English speaking world is the dub itself. Many plot elements were changed around, all in an attempt to make it feel less 'Easter'. (The series takes place in Japan, but many of the beliefs are actually Chinese in origin.) Also, the dialouge was made to be rather silly at times, more the way American action films tend to be (With lots of silly one liners, etc.). Ironically, many people who have not seen the Japanese version of the film but think they're experts anyway usually quote the character Rei as having teh most inappropriuate dialouge... Let me just say that while I would have re-done the wording quite a bit for some scenes, Rei was teh one character who actually came through with the same character, and an above average US voice talent. (Yes, he really DID mock the thug after cutting his arms off- but when he's using Nanto Suichoken in slow motion, he should be talking the whole time through- a Better choice than 'No, I believe you're the one about to die. *Silence* In fact... there's no doubt about it!' would be "Oh, my name? My name is Rei... Master of the South Star Waterfowl technique!") And as for the Movie having 'No Plot', well... Tell me... If there were to be a Dragonball Z movie that covered EVERY chapter from the first appearance of Radits to the death of Freezer, would the plot make any sense? Would it look like there even *WAS* a plot if you did 107 episodes in under 2 hours? No? OK then!

So, above all, what exactly IS Hokuto no Ken? Well, 'Post Apocalypse Action' is a somewhat fighting, but this tends to make people think of titles like 'Mad Max' and 'Bronx Warrior 1990', and Saying it's a post apocalypse Martial Arts movie just makes you sound weird... But, someone once called it 'A post apocalypse adventure/martial arts story with excessive use of splatter scenes', and that's about as close as it gets.

To further confusion with fans, the first season was completely re-written from the manga. The fight with King, teh first big battle in the story, was pushed from episode 5 to episode 22, and the nhext 2 short sagas (The "GOLAN" Saga and the Devil Rebirth saga) were put between episode 5 and 22... And, just to make matters worse, there's filler. A LOT of filler... 8 straight episodes of almost nothign BUT filler, and it's crap filler the likes of which have not been seen since the Garlic Jr. saga. Yes, it WAS that bad. However, after the climactic battle between King and Ken, and the start of the second season (From Rei's first appearance onward), the anime, while it still has it's filler and censorship like every other manga based anime, became a LOT better. MUCH better.
The anime officially ended episode 108, with Ken finally having defeated his greatest advisary and winning back the woman he loves (Sort of... On both accounts...), and leaving to the sunset, finally to be happy. The series ran for another 44 episodes, called 'Hokuto no Ken 2'. The series jumps ahead several years and now has both Bat and Lynne as adults (With new seiyuu's), and new character designs for everyone. The first episode of Hokuto no Ken was re-written quite a bit, but by episode 2 most everything is cleared up. (I have not actually seen any of Hokuto no Ken 2, and so I won't say anything about the animation itself... ) It sported 2 new sets of theme songs, and ended with Ken's battle with Kaiou, the fan favorite villian's brother. (Looks just like him, too! Except he's pretty scarred up... But Kenji Utsumi returned to voice Kaiou, just as he did Raou ^.^) The manga continued for another 3 and a half books or so, and had a very plot and character oriented finale. (The finale was actually 2 parts- the 'Baran Saga', an almost King Lear-ish story with Raou's son in tow, and then the final story ark...) These, as far as I know, have never been animated. (I've heared rumor of a Hokuto no Ken TV movie, but it's far more elusive than even the Dragonball OVA's.)

The soundtrack was also something that stuck out in my mind. Three volumes of Theme songs and BGM are still available on CD as imports, and there is a Taiwanese bootleg CD that is very popular, "Hokuto no Ken: Original Songs" (The only polace to get 1ll 8 themes on one disk, as well as 4 absolutely horrible image songs. If you don't mind bootleg music compilations, and like 80's Rock, pick it up- just skip tracks 3, 4, 9, and 10... Trust me.) The TV show used 'Ai o Torimodose!!' for it's opening a song that defines the series itself, and 'Tough Boy', the rowdy opening song for Hokuto no Ken 2 is a favorite of mine, but what made me love the series as a hole, the moment I knew this was everything I wanted in an anime, was in the movie, the insert song my Kodomo Band- Hearrt of Madness. It's the kind of song that only an 80's action film could pull off, and it was as exciting as the battle it overlayed, and created a beautiful mood for the film as a whole. (Thankfully, the song was untouched, controraty to early rumored cuts where Cark Macek had 'Dubbed' the song, changing the whole thing into english... I'm glad they didn't!) Sadly, the ending theme 'Purple Eyes' was not kept without alteration... The song was turned into an instrumental version, making it a far more depressing sounding song than it really is- particularly if you can understand the lyrics. (Purple eyes, you are... Purple eyes ever more... Purple eyes have always, loooked upon me with warmth... Sure, it's all figurative- but beautiful none the less.)

Naturally, the TV show was only imported to season 1, and the theme songs and eye catchers were cut... *Sigh* Oddly enough the translations for the dub were almost perfect- and THIS coming from a purist (!)- but most of their 'Talent' severely lacked just that, and the original score was replaced with British Techno. If you enjoy dubs, you'lkl probably think it's just fine, but if you're like me, learn from my mistake and get the subtitled edition.

As of new the Anime Movie (Dubbed in English only) is out of print, but VHS copies are still pretty common. (Keep in mind, America has the 'Villian Wins' ending, making an import worth tracking down even for non-language purists, to see the 'Lost Ending'.) There was a Dub Only DVD, but it's been out of print a LONG time, and goes for about $90 on eBay. The manga was translated up to book somewhere in 5 by VIZ, but all 27 books (now 15 economy reprints) are easy enough to find through import dealers. Most of the Action Figures are (or will be) in the states, and completely unchanged from their Japanese counterparts. The only Hokuto no Ken toys that were not imported were Raoh, Yuda, Rei White Hair edition (199X), Rei White Hair edition (200X), Kenshiro 2000 (Special edition toy with Poster), and the deluxe 'Raoh and Koku-Oh- Go!' set (Raoh with his horse, Koku-Oh.) All other toys are easy to find in the original Kaiyodo packaging, for decent prices, at most comic and anime shops.

Well, I hope this has shed some light on my favorite anime/manga of all time, Hokuto no Ken. I've chosen NOT to review the Live action movies, and I understand there were two of them (I've heared of a Hong Kong film based on the manga, but this is as rare and elusive as the TV movie.), and I really don't have the energy to talk about the Live Action Movie 'Fist of the North Star'... I thought it was a fun movie, and it had a lot of potential, (Most of it foolishly wasted...) and I really Like Gary Daniels... But compare it to the anime movie, and it's a piece of poop. Period.

Like I said... YOU ASKED FOR IT.

Kulilin

Holy **** Kulilin....

Holy S*** that had to be the longest thing he ever wrote Jeeze Louise man get a job that makes you write all day and youll be the president of the company...GOOD GOD..

Thanks Kullin for the HnK info. I ned to but the figs now. I had read up quite a bit on HnK on various websites but none of them had complete info. For one thing, what happens to Toki? Form what I've read, he seems like a very cool character. I know last I heard, he was dying, but not dead yet. And that Ameoba fellow seemed rather neat too. Ken killed him in a very interesting way IMO.

Okay guys, I'll keep this short. Well, short for me, anyway.

Toki is first introduced after Jyagi is defeated by Ken, and talk of a mysterious healer begins, about a place called 'Miracle Village'. Ken, and his traveling partners (The arrogant but enjoyable Rei, and Julia's dead ringer Mamiya) seek this man, as he was said to be named Toki. ("Toki" usually means 'Time' in a vague sense, so it would be like a character named 'Eon', in a way.) When Ken finally arrives, Rei and Mamiya still trying to catch up to Ken who stole away in the night (Nothing new there...), he finds the village in shambles, run by a midget who uses a staff and very springy leg tendons (his name escapes me), and his large assistant. Basically, they run a 'game' at teh local cafe and bar (They're sort of teh same thing here), where anyone who can defeat his man gets 7 days worth of food. All you have to do is armwrestle the giant! What he doesn't tell you is that you do it on a table with two rotary saws, so the loser actually loses his whole forearm.
Ken is disgusted by this, and a friendly, though large man takes up the challenge. Sadly, he loses. (In the anime, hsi arm is scratched by the saw, but Ken intervened before he's wounded permenantly.) Ken offers to take on the giant, and (as usual) the 'Pretty boy' is sassed to no end. Well, Ken beats him without breaking a sweat- though he choses to BREAK the thug's arm rather than saw it off. (Think 'Romeo must Die' or 'Riki-Oh: Story of Ricky' with the X-ray shots.) The midget gets pretty mad, and starts hopping around like a madman, with these fun little Wolverine claws... Ken slaps him, freezes his muscles in a 'Sliding down the pole' position, and basically has a midget on a stick for the next episode or so... Yes, it's really silly, but it almost makes sense if you see it. (In the manga, he doesn't actually carry around the Midget on a Stick, just lets him pop in the room... But it was so funny in the anime I can't help but consider it 'real'.)
So Ken makes his way to see 'Toki', who is currently performing experiments on people to learn new Tsubo. He's learned new techniques with incredible results- but most of them don't work right. When Ken actually arrives, he is 'helping' a young boy, when he's actually just using him as a guinea pig. His father offers anything to save the child- even his own body... He dies moments before Ken breaks down the door to Toki's workshop. (In the manga, the boy dies. In the anime, Ken pushes tsubo and heals him. Take is as you will.) It's time for ken to kick butt and chew bubblegum... But ken doesn't like bubblegum.
After several pages of some wonderful butt-kicking, Ken tears Toki's shirt, and shows a gigantic scar on his back (Basically, his WHOLE back), proving in Ken's mind that this really is Toki, from when he took the hit of a falling tree to save Ken's life as a boy. When asked why he's doing this, Toki relates the story of his Christ like healings in Miracle Son, and how the next day the whole place was pilaged and burned. Toki went insane, and in one of my favorite images from the manga ('Toki' Crying Blood), Toki lashes out against Ken.
What's this!? Something crazy in the plot happens!? Oh, right- Rei and Mamiya show up, and Rei reveals 'Toki' to be nothing more than a pretender, a man who impersonates his enemies. Named 'Amoeba', he took Toki's form when he was shamed by Toki. Amoeba had tried to heal a man in Miracle Village, but botched it horribly. Toki fixed the problem, and slapped Amoeba across the face. Ameoba was so insulted that he had Toki captured by his master the Fist King (Ken-Ou), and became Toki to soil his name.
Amoeba loses sight of Ken, and Ken tries to use "Hokuto Zankai Ken" (North Dipper Lingering Regret Fist), but Ken's fingers are blocked by the villian's hands... Ken's fingers actualluy go THROUGH his hands... but Amoeba is far from afraid, and strikes his 'New' tsubo. He bloats up until he's of Incredible Hulk proportions, but Kenshirou never moves... He knows his muscles can't take the strain. Sure enough, Amoeba's hands explode, leaving him with no defense whatsoever.
Kenshirou strikes tsubo to make his legs verk backwards, indefinately, causing Ameoba to walk backwards, far past his great windowsill. (It seems all these castles have great big wondows- but if I were an evil warlord, I'd want a nice view of my unhappy serfs too, I suppose.) With his last step, he calls out "I have failed you my lord, the Fist King!"

With those words, Ken and his allies seek this man, and the prison he created, 'Cassandra, the City of Wailing Demons'.

When the find Toki in tje bowels of the prison, he is quite sick. He can still fight, and fight he will, but he's not well enough to take on the Fist King. However, he does defeat those nessicary, and Ken is taught the essense of his new style- Hokuto Shinken, but modified so that there is no pain. In fact, the deaths are calming, even plasurable. It's hard to accept, but Toki is an benevolent man, and does not want to hurt those who would him- Toki is, honestly, VERY Christ like in almost every way. (Yes, he even has the little beard... But shouldn't Jesus look jewish, or is it just me?) This is the only real refference to christianity, other than Kaiou and (In the finale) Boruge using crucifixes and inflicting wounds, much like what happened to Christ, but almost all of th esymbolism is based on Chinese beliefs.

Anywho, the battle with Raou and Ken is a big one... Ken was struck by Raou's blows, and was saved only by 'interference'. Raou reveals to have been struck by a crossbow bolt while performing th eattack, thuys distracting him. (The bolt was shot by Rei, who had recently been defeated by Raou, but will not die for another 3 days... 'To Spread the fear of Me, Ken-Ou, to those fool enough to challenge me.' Well, same idea anyway.) Ken tries to walk, and manages to half fix the problem, until he's struck again and paralized completely- by Toki!
Toki and Raou fight, and the Fist King soon sees that he simply cannot win! He and every other fighter had clashed, fist to fist, trading blows at every oppurtunity. Toki, on the other hand, moves WITH Raou, pushing his blows away and only sneaking in a blow of his own when it's convienant. Raou figures out that if Toki can't move, he can't win, and so, with a trident from his Horse's saddle, puts his foot on Toki's and impales their feet to the ground. Raou beats on Toki until he is satisfied, and Raou is about to strike a final blow- when Mamiya raises her crossbow. She fires... And the bolt is caught by Kenshirou's body, the paralyses worn off. Remember what I said about Ken not liking bubble gum?
The two end in a draw, and this where the Movie officially ends (Minus Mamiya and Toki). Toki and Raou fight again, under the watchful eye of Hokuto itself, and Raou is proven to be the better fighter, but when Toki accepts his fate to die, (He has to... He has seen the 8th star of Hokuto, the Death Star, and any who see it are fated to die in one year...) Raou, with tears in his eyes, simply cannot strike the fatal blow. 'I love my brother too much' he says, and goes off on his last crusade- to destroy the final 3 threats to hsi very existance... The man named Ryouga, the master troupe of Nanto Seiken, and a mysterious man named the Eye of Julia.

Toki comes to teh land owned by Ryouga, master of a style that is neither Hokuto or Nanto. ('Tenryu Ken' is a neutral art that is used to 'Scoop' flesh out of your opponent, as if they were made of ice cream and you hand is a warp scoop... It's pretty vile to look at, actually.) Ken-ou had once fought beside him, but Ryouga found Ken-Ou's insanity too much to deal with, and so he resides in hsi own kingdom. Toki decides to rest there, as Ken-Ou is likely to come, and he knows that Raou must be stopped.
Ryouga hears of a Hokuto master in his kingdom, and gets moire that just a little paranoid. After slaughtering villagers for trying to keep it a secret (I think... I can't quite read this part, and I don't have it translated yet) he takes on Toki, and gores him up pretty well. Ken hears of Toki's folly, and comes to help his brother. (Keep in mind that Ken, Jyagi, Raou and Toki were all adopted... If we ever get to birth brothers, MUCH later, I'll call them 'Blodd Brothers'.) Ken fights Ryouga and manages to mortally wound him, and to everyone's surprise, Toki is still alive. Toki presses tsubo on Ryouga so that he may die in peace, and tells Kenshirou that if he cannot defeat Ryouga, he hasn't a chance against Raou anymore. He instructs Ken to burn Ryouga's palace, the pyre of a madman (Am I the only one who starts thinking 'Return of the King' on that one?), and not to wait for him.
Kenshirou honor's his brothers wish, and for the first time since I can remember in teh series, a main character dies without a drop of blood. While Ryouga is dying, he reveals that he intended to kill Ken-ou, as he's approaching the Eye of Julia, a man no one could even guess existed, let alone who was under the mask. He knows that the 6 masters of Nanto, including Fudou and the well renownded soldier Rihaku, will do everything in their power to keep this final master safe. Kenshirou turns away from the palace, knowing that it has come to only him, and Raou...

And so the stage is set for the greatest of all Hokuto no Ken saga's, the Finale of the original TV show, too. The finale takes up the better part of 4 books, and took even me by surprise. The anime gives itself problems, (Particularly when we HEAR the Eye of Julia... It's a pretty good giveaway to her identity, while in the manga we could only guess what his voice sounded like) but all in all, this is the greastest saga in the manga, along with the Kiba Ichi Zoku saga, and the finale. (I hope to translate the last 8 chapters... The tragic, bittersweet ending SHOULD be known to english speaking fans.)I've heared that this saga was chock full of filler as well, but I've heared it's actually WATCHABLE filler... Well, they couldn't have done any worse than the first season, that's for sure.

Well, this is a brief history of Toki, and I only bring it up because he's never, EVER been seen in an english translation. At all. Period. Mamiya was in the english manga, so I don't think anyone's deprived of her if they want her- they're just chepa and/or broke.

Once again, thank you. Much appriciated. As for Toki not being in any English Version, has the Viz Manga not gotten that far, or have they inexplibaly cut out Toki.

Toki is indeed missing from the VIZ manga, but it wasn't a maatter of cutting the character out- moreso it was simply how popular the series was... Or rather, how unpopular.

Generally, I don't buy manga much. I avoid translated works like a plague for the most part, and while Tankou books are not expensive, it is quite costly to have your books shipped from Tokyo (As I do). I've been known to spend over $25 for a few books of manga, and then spend over $20 to have them shipped... Imports are costly for a reason, remember that! Honestly, my first experience with a translated manga was the VIZ released Fist of the North Star- Book 1.

I generally avoid translated manga, for 3 reasons. First off, the translations themselves. I enjoy watching anime to be sure, usually with subtitles- but the subtitles are sometimes even less acurate than a decent English dub, or even worse, it's a dubtitle. In those inctances, I simply turn off the subtitles on my DVD (Or pretend they aren't there if it's VHS) and conecntrate on the actual dialouge. With a translated manga, you don't have this option. Their translation is as definate as a dub, for better or worse.
The second thing I dislike about translated manga is the price range. One 24-40 page comic retails for around $3 in US funds, and in Japan a whole phonebook style magazine is about the same price. (I have yet to actually hold a copy of Boys Jump... The copy my teacher bought for me months ago was destroyed in a fire before I ever had a chance to smell it. I always love the smell of a fresh comic.) A tankou book is under $5, and american books the same length usually go for around $20. Yes, America's books are, inch for inch, usually much larger, and are printed on a much nicer, stronger paper stock- but call me old fassioned, I like my paperbacks being just that, small books with dust jackets (And in Japan, obi's as well).
The final thing I dislike about american released manga is the re-working of titles. Until recently, manga was always reversed, so that it's read left-to-right, while Japan reads the opposite way. (So, if you were to pick up a Japanese book, the import's front cover would be the back cover to an american.) Flopping the artwork causes all kinds of problems- Everyone becomes left handed, english characters are read backwards, and the art just doesn't flow as it was intended. Any specific, non symmetrical designs (For example, the sounds on Ken's chest) or english words have to be re-drawn completely, further changing the finished product. I find it particularly distracting to find a backwards Katakana the US artist JUST couldn't work out. Further changes happen (For example, the short lived Devilman manga being colorized, or Dragonball being re-drawn so thta Gokuu's pee-pee vanished) simply taint my taste, and very quickly at that.

Viz does the best Japan-to-US work by far, but it's far from perfect. After the attrocious dub by Carl Macek I was worried as to how the translation would be handled. Often, an anime and manga translation will share things like name changes. (For example, when Viz translated Pocket Monster to Pokemon, Satoshi was still named Ash Ketchum, etc.) The Hokuto no Ken manga, however, was a lot better than I expected.
Names were usually as-is (Batto was Bat, as it should be, Rin was Lynne, Ken's full name was used, etc.), but a few nit-picks still bother me. 'Z' was named 'Zeed', and while this IS how the letter 'Z' is pronounced in Japan ("Zeddo"), I felt that 'Z' would have been fine. Julia's name was kept as 'Yuria', a perfectly acceptable Japanese spelling of the name, so I guess I can't complain. The Religious Unit GOLAN was changed to 'The Provident', but everything else about the translation seemed fine to me. Simmilar to the dragonball translations, colliquial speech was used to the story's advantage. Ken's dialouge, while a little fanciful for the modern day, was quite fitting. "You're in my way" is exactly what 'Doke' means, and thankfully the series tagline was left unadulterated: "Omae ha mou, shinderu" became "You are already dead". In contrast, Bat's dialouge is quite relaxed in comparison, and fits his character well. "Did he see that!? OH NO! He'll kill me..." still remains the funniest moment involving Bat, after sneaking the last piece of Jerky from Ken. Well, that, or Bat wetting himself... Overall, the dialouge was handled quite well.
The technique translations, however, fell a little flat. "Hokuto" became 'The Great Bear' (So, Hokuto Shin Ken, the Divine Fist of the North Dipper, became 'The Sacred School of the Great Bear'- a creative title, to say the least), and dialouge was often extended to say that the "Fist of the North Star" was the most deadly technique of the school. So, purists were (somewhat) pleased, but we still had 'North Star' to make the english title work. Move translations ranged from reather good (Hokuto Hyakuretsu Ken became "Hundred Crack Fist of the North Star") to rather awkward (Kou Shu Hagan Ken became the "Visage Cracking Fist of the North Star"...W-wha...Hunh!?). To make matters more confusing, Nanto Sei Ken (South Dipper Star Fist) Became 'Southern Cross', agrivating the heck out of me. Southern Cross was Shin's city, and 'Southern Cross King' was his title- it had nothing to do with martial arts! Sadly, Rei (Now 'Ray') and Shin were both 'Southern Cross' practitioners. (As I don't have book 3, I'm not sure what was done to "Rakan Ni Ou Ken"... Manga video called it the 'Ahrat Deva' Fist, what ever that means...) Strangely enough, the Liutenant from Chapter 13-16 used the Nanto technique 'Nanto Mouon Ken', and it was written just that way without translations. I'm also unsure of what the Kiba Ichizoku "Wolf Pack Genocide Fist" was called- it was a mixed bag as far as translations go, as is any Viz series with attack names.

The manga is flopped. I don't like that. Everyone becomes left handed, and that always bugs me. Sound Effects are translated, but that's not a big deal, I guess. I was expecting the manga to be censored, either for the exploding heads or the scene where Shin stands nude and is toweled off by a pair of lovely ladies (His crotch is 'smooth' with nothing to see), but neither scene was altered. The one thing they always do is change one of the wounds on Ken's chest, so it still looks like the Big Dipper. Sometimes it's seamless. Sometimes, it's far FROM seamless (Particularly in pages originally in color). The scene where Shin actually pokes the holes in Ken's chest (The flashback, chapter 8) really suffers from this, and while even the original was a little inconsiatant, the VIZ version isn't helping any.

Another pet peeve of mine is the way the books are broken up. Book 1 in Japan ends with Ken holding Shin's arm, the flashback over, and book 2 begins with Shin finally getting a major hit on Ken. Book 2 finishes the GOLAN saga, and begins the Jackal saga. The VIZ release of book 1 isfrom chapter 1 ALL the way to the end of the GOLAN saga. Book 2 is the Jackal saga. Book 3 aparently ends somewhere in the middle of the Kiba Ichizoku saga, and book 4 ends with Jyagi's death, and the revelation that Toki and Raou still live. Thus far, this is all that has been translated, and most likely all that ever will be (Professionally).

VIZ tried the series, gave it a fair chance, and to it's credit it lasted a while longer than some manga. America is far more fickle than Japan about comics, and in recent years the US comic business hasn't exactly been booming. Viz book 4 ends in the middle of Jump Comics book 5, so there are over 20 tankou's yet to be translated. (What few Web translations you can find tend to be rather inacurate.) Toki first appears somewhere in book 7, however Amoeba would have appeared in the next chapter. VIZ isn't actually trying Toki from anyone, they simply weren't making enough money from the series to justify continuing it's production. (Manga video did the same thing, cutting the Hokuto no Ken TV show at episode 24, 2 episodes into a new season... Had they just put Episode 22 on Volume seven as a bonus and ditched volume 8 entirely, english speaking fans wouldn't have been teased so- as that was the end of season 1, so no one would be terribly confused.)

I own all 27 Hokuto no Ken tankouban, and I can read just enough japanese that I can't justify buying the English books again. I gave book 1, the only one I bought in english, to Sachiko-sensei so she could show her parents what english manga looks like. (I've never actually asked if she read manga, but I'm pretty sure she didn't read Hokuto no Ken growing up- she'll actually skip through pages if I bring one and ask me to read a relitavely bloodless page. Devilman wasn't a great idea, either... ^-^ I hope to get teh Aizou (Hard Cover) Printings someday, but they're both expensive and hard to find, making it harder to get a hold of than even the long out of print tankou's that I have.

Anyone interested (And still reading) in the Hokuto no Ken manga, and isn't a drop-dead-purist-flaming-otaku as I believe myself to be, I would recomend picking up the Viz graphic novels. There are 4, and they retail for about $20 each (Give or take), and range from 184 to 368 pages, including misc. artwork and the like- Including some that never made it to the tankou books. (The title page for Chapter 2 in the English book 1 is nowhere to be found in my tankou- but again, it's just a title page , a painting with Ken and the main villian of the chapter.) If you still like the series after that, (I found myself enjoying it even more afterwards) you cna pick up the import manga. Keep in mind, it is in Japanese... No subtitles, boys and girls. However, you can learn enough Japanese to read it (As I'm doing- or use the skills you already have), find a friend who can read it to you (It makes story time a lot more fun that way), or just sort of make up the story as you go along, like watching a bad kungfu movie with the sound turned off. (Hey, wait a sec... )

Or just ask me, I'd be glad to help! ^.~

One last note- The manga was translated VERY well, and remained uncensored and uncut because of it. There's mild cursing (Though less than the manga video translations, and nothing you can't hear on ABC these days) and violence. Oh my, there's lots of bloody, gory violence. And the occasionally naked person. And two jokes with pee- though they're not as bad as you'd think. (Bat wets himself in the first chapter, one of the funniest non-anime moments with Bat of all time, and Ken beats on Fox when he's kind of 'busy'- a great scene, in my eyes.) Viz never listed this as a 'Mature Reader' title, but most Americans would view it as R-Rated. Though with the exception of Dragonball, I had never known Viz to censor manga anyway. (Most american companies who deal in hentai titles UN-censor it... But that's not something I'll get into just now.) I bought the book when I was 13, and had seen far worse in Comics by then (It's not as bad as, say, 'Spawn' or some of the old 'Predator' titles), but I will make it clear that this is the most consistantly violent comic I've ever read...

Although it sounds like a great manga, I most likely won't pick it up because of the extreme violence. It makes me a tad of a hypocryte because I read DBZ manga uncut and have seen #20 pop that motorist's head like a pimple, SSJ2 Gohan DEMOLISH those Cell Jrs., not to mention that pretty much every Dodoria scene features a slaughter. But I have a wierd tolerance for violence. Some stuff I can see with no prob, others make me run to the figurative toilet. DBZ, with it's energy impalitions isn't a prob in my eyes, but pretty much any entrails going flying, especially with the HnK relatively detailed art style, is a no-no for me. I'll still get the figs though, and still read/ ask about it, but I just won't even attempt to see what HnK is really like.

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Consider it...a lesson.
-Legato Bluesummers, Trigun

You know, I've been watching Trigun subs for about four volumes now and you know what I just realized...I like the dub better. Sure, Legato sounds cooler, but hey, so does everyone else when they're dubbed. Hoppard the Gantret sucks bi-lingually (frickin Joker-voiced pissant who RULED in the manga, ruined in the anime) Wolfwood and Vash have really good VAs, I like how Milly and Meryl don't have such incredibly high pitched voices in the dub (I like Milly, I really do, but her Japanese voice gives me a headace after a while), Midvalley, Dominique, Rei Dei, and Zazie were all exelent. E.G. Mine was pretty much EXACT voice wise to the Japanese version. Up to you if that's a good thing or not. I can do his dub's "Shayy waht...?" fairly well, IMO along with, "I'm an the 4th Gung Ho Gun. I am Zazie the Beast!", once again, IMO.

Now here's some of my general thoughts on the anime. First of all, it just wasn't long enough. It felt too rushed at the end. Two main characters die, Vash fights Knives and...that's about it. Another factor in this is how the GHG were handaled. Compared to the manga...well, I don't want any little kids to learn any new words cause of me. Some of the really stark diffrences include: Midvalley as Legato's lapdog. In the manga, he plots with Wolfwood and Hoppard to have Knives and Vash destroy each other. He's killed when he attempts to kill Legato. Speaking of Hoppard (Legato makes Hoppard shoot Midvalley), Hoppard isn't just a Joker-voiced human bullet. He's a man who want's revenge on the Humanoid Typhoon for destroying July. Why? Because when July was nuked, Hoppard's blind love died too. On the subject, in the anime, nobody died when July exploded. Bull. I know that if I got hit with the shockwave of an Angel Arm, I'd be vaped. To quote Midvalley " Not a single shread of flesh, not a single drop of blood, and a single shard of bone would remain. ABSOLUTE DESTRUCTION." I think that about covers what Angel Arms can do. Now, on to more whining on GHG back stories. Leonov the Puppetmaster. In the anime, just another killer. Some good lines, but just another killer. Manga, he used to LIVE in Sky City. He KNEW Vash personally. He dosen't get blown up by Wolfwood (cool as that was), he jumps to his death after his prize possession, the body of the woman he loves is lost. Deep, man, deep. Then there's the whole Chapel business. Here's a spoiler so watch out: Wolfwood is Chapel. In the manga at least, which leads to some great diolouge when Vash fights the GHGs in Wolfwood's presence. In the anime...Chapel is Wolfwood's mentor. Eh not too, too bad, but of course the manga is better. The manga has a better stroyline over all. Plus you see a lot more of a character who shows up very little in the anime: Million Knives. Also, he gets the name from his ability to turn his appendages into VERY,VERY,VERY,VERY sharp blades.

This isn't to say the anime sucks. By no means does it. At all. So, my suggestion to all you Trigunners who want to gather as much as you can on this incredible series, I suggest you buy the DVDs, the manga, and read the translation off my manga hookup Sumire's site:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/7551/tri-index.html

Warning, there's mature content and language, and a LOT of very violent deaths. Enjoy what happens to Zazie. Well, the first one at least...

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Friendship.
Trust.
Desire.
Hatred.
You all carry too many unnecessary burdens.
Only. One. Thing:
Absolute devotion to Him,ought to be all you need.
-Legato Bluesummers, Trigun

[This message has been edited by Legato Bluesummers (edited 05-05-2001).]

Im not Legato but.... you can get Trigun manga at wizzywig.com and sasugabooks.com.

IMO the manga isnt too great, its good but the anime is just as good, then again Trigun is my fav manga so id never say anything nice about it...

The site I put up in my post sells manga by buying it from stroes an then selling it.

As far as I know the manga and anime isnt out yet. The anime is due out in July but no idea when the manga is due to be out, soon I would think.

Hi

speaking of manga which is the better of the Akira manga DARK HORSE Or MARVAL

bye

Hey everyone- I have a question...

Did Ninja Scroll win any awards?
Can anyone list what they were?

Thanks a bunch.

Time to bring this thread back ontop.

Sorry, I cant answer any Ninja scroll questions, heh ive never actually seen those mvoies or ovas whatever they are, but I know some others here have.

I finally got around to watching some Japanese Big O. This series rules! good music,cool character and a good story.Roger Smith is as cool as ever. Cant wait for those US Bandai "figures". I think Dorothy's VA also does Relena (GW) but im not sure, im talking about the Japanese verison, not the dub.

Cast in the name of God, ye not guilty!

I saw episode 11 of the Big O today. I wasn't impressed. At all. In fcat, I thought it was pretty bad. I had a lot of fun MSTing it with my mom. "Causing massive property damage! Big O arises!" Animation was pretty slick though.

Unfortunatly, as that is a common case with dubs, I'll take your word for it.

Hey, can anyone give me a bit of a lowdown on Cowboy Bebop? Nothing spoilish, just a brief rundown, tell me how graphic the violence and/or nudity is (I usually make my mom watch anime with me.), etc.